Palladian Window Installation – Part Two

Palladian Window Installation – Part Two!

Read part one of the Palladian window install blog here!

In our last post, we shared the initial stages of our largest window replacement to-date: a 10 ft by 17 ft, two-story Palladian window. One of the most important aspects of the installation was ensuring that the homeowner was without a window for as brief a time as possible. To guarantee a swift, safe, and secure installation, TDSW spent significant time in preparation. From start to finish, this Palladian window replacement took the TDSW crew three days.

Day 1

For the comfort and safety of the customer, it was vital that no part of the window remain open overnight. To ensure that the installation process could be completed in one day, the TDSW team spent the first day of the install in preparation, setting up and troubleshooting the installation process. Due to the size of the window, we built scaffolding so that the removal and install could happen quickly and safely on the second day. Once the prep work was complete, we were ready for the actual installation.

On day one we built scaffolding and did prep work to ensure that the window could be removed safely and easily on day two.

Day 2

On the second day, a team of six worked for approximately six hours carefully removing the old window and installing each piece of the new product. The glass in the old window was un-tempered and fragile, and this combined with the poor condition of the surrounding wood made the removal much more time-consuming than the installation. Once the old window was removed, the team installed the new product from the bottom up. By the end of the day, the window was fully installed and ready for finishing touches.

The old window had to be removed one pane at a time.

Day 3

On the final day, the team trimmed the new window and cleaned up the space. Casing was added to the interior, completing the look, while brick mold with an aluminum clad finish was added to the exterior. Finally, the team broke down the scaffolding and cleaned up any debris from installation.

The customer was delighted with the finished product!

Check out the time-lapse video of this project!

Door Store and Windows is proud to have the opportunity to replace the windows in your home, from the smallest to the largest statement windows. No matter the project, replacement, custom or new construction, TDSW is here to help. Give us a call today!

Door Store and Windows Rises to Any Challenge

Palladian Window Replacement – Part One

With over twenty years of experience and a talented team of experts, Door Store and Windows (TDSW) is uniquely equipped to tackle even the most challenging installation projects. Recently, a client came to us after consulting with three other window replacement companies who were unable to complete their project. They asked us to replace their 25-year old, two-story Palladian window, and we were confident in our ability to make the client’s vision a reality.

Our largest replacement to-date: a two-story Palladian window.

To begin the process our Sales and Design Consultant, Karen, met with the client at their home to assess the window and evaluate the project needs. The window was severely rotted, and at 10 feet by 17 feet, it was the largest that we had ever replaced. During the visit, Karen took extensive measurements and then began the process of developing preliminary window drawings. Given its majestic size, Karen, Jim, and Craig of the TDSW team worked with the Marvin architectural team to engineer a custom replacement window built with structure and stability in mind.

The old window was severely rotted.

The homeowner wanted to preserve key design elements and the feel of the original window. We communicated with the client regularly during the design process, discussing options and architectural details to ensure the final product was a strong, durable window suited precisely to their tastes. Once the client was satisfied with the design, the Marvin team fabricated the window. A window of this size is too large to be transported in one piece, so it was designed to be installed in five sections at the job site.

The new window was designed to be installed in sections.

It’s not only custom designs and complex replacements that warrant this kind of thoughtful attention to detail. As a local business, we pride ourselves in treating each customer as a neighbor, being communicative, helpful, and willing to go above and beyond to solve any door or window design problem that you may have. Consistent customer service, no matter how large or small the project, is one of the many reasons why Door Store and Windows is your most trusted exterior design source.

Curious about the installation of the two-story Palladian window? Click here to read the rest of the story!

At Door Store and Windows, our goal is to provide peace of mind and customer satisfaction throughout the entire replacement process. If you have any questions, feel free to give us a call at (502) 822-5424.

Our Window Installation Process

Quality Products Deserve Quality Installation

Replacing more than one window in your home may sound like a daunting project, but at Door Store and Windows we strive to make the replacement process as simple as possible for the homeowner. One important aspect of this is our efficient rolling installation.

During your window installation, the TDSW team breaks into two groups. Team A begins the installation process on the first window, removing the old and preparing the frame for the new. At the halfway point, team B begins removing the second window and preparing the frame. This way, as soon as team A finishes installing the first new window, the second is ready to be installed. This rolling process guarantees that the project is done quickly and efficiently without leaving your home vulnerable to the elements.

An installation project timeline depends on the number and type of windows you plan to replace. We are proud to say that we complete most of our installation projects in one to two days, causing as little disruption as possible.

Our window installation process consists of the following steps:

1. Team Arrival, Introduction, and Work Space Preparation

Our installation team consists of two to five people, depending on the size of the project. When the team arrives, they introduce themselves before preparing their work space. To contain debris, we place plastic sheeting on the floor and surrounding surfaces in each room. Our team lays a plastic walkway throughout the home so that our team members can carry heavy equipment without affecting your floor. As required by the EPA, we use additional coverage when replacing very old windows which have been covered with lead-based paint.

Plastic sheeting is placed around the window to be removed.

2. Verify Measurement

Before removing any windows, our team makes sure to re-measure the insert area and the new window. This guarantees that the correctly sized product was delivered and that we will be able to complete the project once we begin demolition.

Measuring A Replacement Window

A TDSW Installer measuring the window insert area.

3. Remove Old Window

After measurements are verified, our team carefully removes the first old window, preserving molding and surrounding areas.

The old windows are carefully removed.

4. Clean Insert Area

Once the old window is removed, our team cleans up any loose paint, dust, and other debris from the insert area. At this point in the demolition, you may be able to see inside your wall. This surprises some of our customers, but there’s no need to worry: our team will ensure that there are no signs of demolition once installation is complete.

The insert area is thoroughly cleaned before installation.

5. Installation

Our team carefully unloads the new windows, removes the packaging, and installs the product. Once the window is set and secured, we use spray foam insulation around the perimeter. This creates an energy-efficient seal. Then, we reapply the trim.

A TDSW Installer lifts the new window into place.

6. Clean-Up

After installation we clean up any debris, vacuum the area, and remove the plastic sheeting.

The finished product.

At Door Store and Windows, our goal is to provide peace of mind and customer satisfaction throughout the entire replacement process. Click here to learn more about the replacement process from consultation to install. If you have any questions, feel free to give us a call at (502) 822-5424.

Read about out our door replacement process by clicking here!

A Great Product That Won’t Break the Bank – TDSW Now Offers Sierra Pacific

Sierra Pacific products add a modern touch to this rustic design

At Door Store and Windows (TDSW) we pride ourselves on offering our clients the highest quality products. That’s why we’re happy to present Sierra Pacific Windows to Louisville – a stylish product with a wide array of features and colors at a cost that won’t break your budget.

We are particularly excited to offer this product line to our professional partners. As you know, building a home is an extremely involved process, and it is important to meet the project budget while still providing a quality product for the client. Sierra Pacific is extremely cost effective for new construction and remodeling projects while still offering homeowners an array of features and colors to customize and match their personal style. For example, their wood/aluminum clad products are available in 75 different exterior color options, plus the products include a 20 year warranty for rot.

“Sierra Pacific gives us the ability to provide a good quality and diverse line of products and options to match the budget needs of more builders and homeowners than we previously could,” says Ann Gregory, TDSW Co-Owner. “It completes our lineup of fine products at a variety of price points.”

Much like TDSW, Sierra Pacific is family owned and committed to making their buying process a true partnership for all involved. They are responsive, easy to work with and always have their customers’ best interests in mind.

A black finish allows the windows to stand out among the brick finishes on this home

Sierra Pacific Windows is owned by Sierra Pacific Industries, and are made using lumber harvested from the company’s 1.9 million acres of timberland in California and Washington. As the largest vertically integrated window manufacturer in the world, their seed-to-window manufacturing approach is a reflection of their dedication to sustainability and product integrity. Sierra Pacific plants every seed, manages every acre of land and harvests every piece of lumber used in their products.

TDSW will work with you to pick the best products for your project. Our New Construction team is here to help whether you are interested in Sierra Pacific or the many other products we offer. Give us a call to talk about your upcoming project and how we can help!

Budget Conscious Replacement Window Options Help Revive A Diamond In the Rough

While searching for their first home, Brad and Amber found their diamond in the rough in Louisville’s Highlands neighborhood. The house, a classic bungalow in a desired neighborhood, with tons of charm — including Prairie style grilles on the windows – felt like the right fit. But this home was a distressed property on the foreclosure list, and would need a complete renovation. Brad, being the General Manager of Vincent Abell Contracting, was excited and prepared to tackle this project.

When searching for replacement windows for this renovation, Brad turned to our own Don Erickson to assist the couple throughout the remodeling process. “We love Don. He was patient and helped us make decisions when Amber and I had different opinions. He made several trips here to discuss our window options and his ideas were always helpful.”

Technology, Value, And A Historical Fit

Don steered Brad and Amber toward Integrity Windows with Ultrex pultruded fiberglass technology. He knew the couple were drawn to leading edge technology, and looking for a great value. The Integrity Wood/Ultrex windows fit beautifully with the bungalow-style home, and the homes in the surrounding neighborhood, from a historic standpoint. The Wood interiors helped maintain the historic look inside, while the Ultrex fiberglass exterior provided a low maintenance option with extreme durability. Every window in the home was replaced; so finding a product that was a good value was important to keep the project within the budget. 

Don also suggested changing the window configurations in several areas, which worked out great for the home and budget. “We were able to cut some costs and still got all of the windows we needed,” Brad commented. 

Customized Windows

Both awning and casement windows were selected over traditional double-hung windows for added usability and to conserve space. 

The two windows on either side of this fireplace were converted to awning windows to allow space for built-in bookcases. These windows, and their custom prairie grilles, maintained the home’s architectural style while allowing natural light and fresh breezes into the space.

In the dining room, awning windows were located at a position high on the wall to maintain privacy while allowing plenty of light and ventilation, while maintaining privacy, as the home is situated very close to a neighboring home.

Award Winning Results 

In 2014 we nominated this incredible renovation for the Integrity Red Diamond Achiever Awards, and it won the People’s Choice division. Open to builders, remodelers and architects, the Red Diamond Achiever People’s Choice national award program was based on voting by the public and opened with 210 entries from across the US.

If you’re searching for budget conscious replacement window options, give us a contact us or stop by our Louisville window and door showroom. We’d love to help. Interested in reading some more of our content? Check out our blog about the rules of proportion and scale for windows!

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The Curious Ways Windows Open

Right now you’re probably wondering if we really need instructions on something as basic as opening windows. But, if you’ve been researching new or replacement windows in the Louisville area, you’ve likely learned that there are hundreds of types, styles, and materials on the market. There are even multiple ways to open them. We’re here to help you dig through the all of the information so that you can understand the basic functions of each window type, and which may be best for your home.

Let’s start with 5 of the most popular types of windows, and explore how they open:

Double Hung Windows are one of the most common window types you will find. They feature top and bottom sashes that both open, and allow you to double your ventilation. These classic windows are also available with a half round or an elliptical upper sash.

Click here to see Laurie Scarborough, one of our owners, demonstrate these windows.

Picture Windows are typically fixed windows that do not open. They get their name because they are clear glass that is situated in the home to look out at something you’d like to see, so as to frame your view. Much like a picture. Thus, the name.

You may be surprised to learn that we have a “fake fixed” picture window in our Shelbyville Road showroom. Laurie has more on these tricky windows HERE.

Casement Windows are found in homes of all ages all over Louisville. A casement window is a window with a sash that is hinged. While the most common type is hinged on the side, hinges can also be placed on the top or bottom. Many casement windows have cranks, but in those found in older homes in areas such as the Highlands—you’ll find casement windows that work when pushed out.

A great, but less common, type of casement window is one that is hinged at the top. We most often recommend these for a bathroom space, as the top hinge and obscure glass offer both ventilation and privacy. Let Laurie show you more on opening these windows HERE.

Gliding Windows are windows that function much like a sliding door, sliding or gliding into place on a track. If you live in a Mid-Century Modern home — built in the 1950’s or 1960’s — you may have this type of window. If so, we can help replace your windows while staying true to your home’s architectural integrity.

The gliding window in our showroom is a bi-parting sliding window, that opens in both directions.  Laurie has more on opening gliding windows HERE.

Tilt Turn Windows are one of the more fun and unique window options. These were designed and engineered in Europe…and found all over the continent. Tilt Turn windows work in two ways, the first is much like a door. In fact, in Europe they are often large enough to function as a door as well as a window. The second function works by tilting the window upward and in for ventilation. It looks much like a hopper window, with the hinges at the bottom.

Laurie has more on opening these unique windows HERE.

As you have seen, there are a lot of ways to open your windows! New windows can enhance the beauty of your home, improve its value, as well as help reduce energy costs and maintenance. We hope this information has helped you understand the various functions a bit better. If you’re ready to take the next step in buying new windows for your home, give us a call. We’d love to help. Interested in reading some more of our content? Check out our blog about choosing the perfect exterior window shutters for your home!

How New Windows Can Save You Money

The typical home can lose more than 30% of its heat through bad windows (from the Department of Energy). Summer does not change this fact. Remember the cold drafts that you felt any time you moved near your windows last winter? They are still there…just warmer and less noticeable in the summer. But, that cool air you’re pumping through your home to combat the high temperatures outside, guess where it’s going? Yep, right out the old windows. They are simply no longer energy-efficient. 

 Purchasing New Windows Can Help Save Money and Energy

If you select new, high quality, energy-efficient windows, it is possible to see a significant savings in your energy bills. Replacement windows with energy-efficient glass (like insulated glass with Low-E coating) can drastically reduce the movement of hot and cold air in and out of your home all year. With better control over this transfer of air, you can then better manage the energy usage and comfort level in your home.

In addition Low-E coatings on glass actually radiates heat and harmful UV rays away from your home, much like aluminum foil works in the oven. This effect allows your home to feel more comfortable and your furniture, fabrics, and flooring to enjoy protection from the harmful rays. 

When your home feels more comfortable you are using less energy, which will be reflected in your gas and electric bills. In addition, protection from harmful UV rays, means less replacement of dull, worn-out furnishings. 

When Is It Time To Replace My Windows

Chances are that if you think it may be time to replace your windows…it’s definitely time. Below are a few key considerations:

  • Is there film or moisture between the panes of glass? If so, that means there has been seal failure and the glass has lost its effectiveness in insulating.
  • Is there fading in the flooring or furniture around your windows? This indicates that the sun’s rays are harming these items. 
  • Are they in bad condition? Do you have rotting trim around your windows, sticking or broken frames? It may be time to replace the windows for functional purposes. 
  • Are they simply outdated? Renovating your home and the old windows simply do not look right? Wish to update to a more modern look? New windows can help turn your home into a show-stopper. 
  • Do you wish to restore architectural accuracy? The wrong window can drastically affect the overall look of a home, particularly in some cases of historic homes. If you wish to restore architectural accuracy to your home, while updating your windows turn to experts who understand the nuances of maintaining architectural accuracy. 

Does all of this sound a bit overwhelming? No worries. Our Louisville area window and door experts can help you determine the right windows and glass to use for your situation. They can even help determine if replacing your windows in stages makes sense for your home and budget. Give us a call to get started. Interested in reading some more content from us? We wrote a blog about trendy dark interior windows we think you would enjoy!

Does Low-E Glass Help?

If you’ve ever shopped for windows, you probably wondered whether you need low-e glass or if it’s just some marketing mumbo-jumbo. “Low-E” refers to low emissivity.

Ok. What does that mean?

Well, emissivity is a measure of how easily a surface transfers radiant thermal energy…the heat absorbed by objects. Low-emissivity means the surface transfers radiant thermal energy at a low level.

Energy-Efficient Benefits of Low-E Glass

We could go into the details of radiant energy and throw around terms like shortwave rays, long-wave rays and thermal radiation, but we want to keep this simple. The simple explanation of the energy-efficient benefits of low-e glass is that it reflects radiant

heat. In the summer, it keeps your home cool by reflecting away the heat radiating from sidewalks, driveways, patios, decks, and other objects that absorb heat. In the winter, it keeps your home warm by reflecting the radiant heat your furnace system worked so hard to create back into the house.

For example, compare low-e glass to aluminum foil. Foil reflects heat back toward the food to keep it warm. If you covered your windows with foil, your room would be cooler in summer and warmer in winter. But the view wouldn’t be so good. Low-e glass to the rescue!

Reduce Fading and Other Damage

Besides keeping your home more comfortable year-round, low-e glass also works to reduce the early fading of your wood floors,

carpeting, drapes and upholstery fabrics caused by ultraviolet (UV) and other damaging rays, by blocking about two-times more UV light than clear, single-pane glass.

Available on doors, too! – Doors can also benefit from low-e glass. We’ve seen examples of indoor rugs that completely faded in front of a full view door and wood floors that faded compared to the same floor underneath an area rug. The more glass on the door, the more important low-e glass becomes.

Our window and door experts can help you determine the right glass to use for your situation. Call us to get started.

Some Summer Energy-Efficiency Tips…

  • Check the weatherstrip on your doors and windows. This is typically only considered in the winter to prevent drafts, but an improperly sealed window or door can let summer heat into the home, too.
  • Install awnings, overhangs or shades over windows or doors that get extreme sun exposure. A combination of minimizing sunlight and adding low-e glass is the best way to reduce unwanted heat gain.
  • Use window, ceiling and whole-house fans to keep your home a little cooler.

Looking for replacement windows? We recently wrote a blog about how much you should be spending when replacing windows in your home. Read it here!

How to Choose the Right Exterior Window Shutters for your Home

Exterior window shutters have a long history gracing windows before glass was readily available or affordable. Wood shutters served to protect the window opening, provide privacy, add additional insulation during winter and block the sun in the summer. As window technology has improved, shutters are used less for these purposes and more as a decorative feature for your home’s exterior.

Shutters are available in operable and non-operable styles. Design selection, sizing and installation is very important for operable shutters, especially for maintaining historical accuracy. If you have a home that calls for operable exterior shutters or if you have an older home and you want historically correct shutters, come see us to discuss your options. We would really want to see your home as part of the shutter selection process.

Here are a few tips for selecting shutters for your home:

 

Match Your Shutter To Your Home Style

The shutter that is historically accurate for a Victorian home is not the same shutter for an Arts and Crafts home. Check out homes in your neighborhood and decide which style works best for your home. Many of today’s architectural styles are based on historic styles, so keep your home facade true to it’s architectural style.

Louvered – Historically accurate installation will call for louvers to offer rain protection when closed. We’ve become so accustomed to shutters remaining open that today’s louvered shutters are often installed so that rain protection is provided when open. Not exactly useful, but visually, we’ve grown to accept this look. Louvers can be fixed or movable and can be designed as full louvered or louvered/panel combination.

Board and Batten – Generally consisting of several boards mounted vertically with horizontal or “Z” cross bracing and traditionally used on barn-styled homes for a rustic country feel.

 

Solid Panel and Raised Panel – Panel shutters are identified by the number of panels on each shutter. Three panel shutters generally have a small panel on top, a larger panel in the middle and the largest panel on the bottom. Panel sizes can differ based on the size of the shutter.

 

Bermuda or Bahama – These shutters are mounted much like an awning over the window. Generally found in coastal areas, bermuda shutters offer a Caribbean style with protection from the hot rays of the sun.

 

Correctly Size Your Shutters

Shutters should be sized to cover the window if closed and convey the believable appearance of actually being usable even if theyare non-operable. Also, the shutters should mirror image the window. Rails should line up with the lock rail, transom, muntin or other architectural elements of the window. Often, we see shutters mounted upside down…probably a careless reinstall after painting or maintenance.

 

Select A Material That Suits Your Lifestyle

Shutters are available in a variety of materials including wood, pultruded fiberglass, high density structural PVC and other composite materials. Wood provides an authentic look and many people love the unique character multiple coats of paint give a old wooden shutter. Shutters can be made with from woods such as cedar, cypress and African mahogany for decay-resistance while composite materials can offer you freedom from painting and other maintenance.

Watch Out For These Pitfalls…

 

Fiberglass Windows vs. Vinyl Windows – Which Material is Best?

We field questions every day on which material – wood, vinyl or fiberglass – is best and why. We’ll focus this discussion on vinyl and fiberglass materials. Fiberglass has been around for decades, but recently, it has achieved more attention due to its superior strength, weatherability, energy efficiency and low maintenance requirements. Fiberglass windows are taking a big slice out of the more expensive vinyl window markets and leaving many vinyl window manufacturers fighting for the low-quality, budget window market. Find out why fiberglass – and specifically, Ultrex pultruded fiberglass – is becoming the smart choice over vinyl for more and more homeowners.

As a smart homeowner, you want to…

Choose a material that is both tough and smart.

Our Integrity windows by Marvin are made from Ultrex pultruded fiberglass — it’s tough, durable and built to last. It’s eight times stronger than vinyl and three times stronger than vinyl/wood composites. Windows from Integrity perform at the highest level for the full duration of their life. And they live a long, happy life (as much as 38% longer than vinyl1)—making them an incredibly smart investment.

  • Ultrex fiberglass is more than 8X stronger than vinyl.
  • Fiberglass is a green building material and requires 39% less energy to produce than vinyl.
  • Vinyl windows are not particularly strong or rigid and have a tendency to sag due to their flexibility.
  • Vinyl window frames can soften, warp, twist and bow when heat builds up within the frame.
  • Fiberglass is the fastest growing window and door material in the industry.

Create a comfortable home

Windows keep your house cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Integrity’s dual-paned, insulated glass windows with LoE II coating absorb heat in the winter and reflect it in the summer, also reducing damaging UV rays. Additionally, our tri-pane windows with argon gas achieve U-Factors as low as .18, making your home a comfortable oasis in even the harshest environments. Many Integrity products exceed Energy Star guidelines and qualify to be part of an elite “Most Efficient Program” established by the federal government.2

  • Ultrex fiberglass expands and contracts at nearly the same rate as glass to prevent seal failures (the appearance of condensation BETWEEN the glass panes which indicates the glass has lost its insulating effectiveness).
  • Vinyl expands and contracts at a rate of 8X more than glass leading to potential seal failures, frame failures and air gaps.

Get the most for your money

The total value you receive with Integrity Windows is a huge advantage. Multiple factors provide value that’s impossible to ignore:

  • Energy Savings: Integrity’s Energy Star® qualified windows can save you 15% on your total energy bill.³
  • The Warranty: A full 20 years on glass seals and 10 years on manufacturing defects.
  • U-Factor: Our windows with triple-pane glazing boast U-Factors as low as .18.
  • Life Expectancy: A recent study reported that fiberglass windows have a 38% longer useful life expectancy than vinyl.1
  • Ultrex fiberglass has a 38% longer useful life expectancy than vinyl.1
  • Ultrex fiberglass is price competitive to high quality vinyl windows.
  • Ultrex fiberglass resists UV degradation (chalking, fading and cracking) 5X longer than vinyl.

Enhance the look of your home

Integrity Windows are Built to Perform® — for a long, long time. So, unlike most of your design choices and furnishings, they are long-term fixtures in your home. Integrity Windows are available in both classic and modern styles to reflect your style with lasting quality. A variety of available exterior colors allow for an understated look or an adventurous accent mark. Exterior trim and divided lites can add a beautiful touch, and with the durability of Ultrex you’ll have plenty of time to admire them instead of maintaining them.

  • Fiberglass windows can be built with thinner, stronger frames than vinyl or composites like Fibrex, allowing larger openings and more daylight.
  • Ultrex provides a superior, consistent finish that can be painted, even in dark colors, without voiding the warranty.
  • Ultrex is the only product in the fiberglass, vinyl or composite category whose finish is certified for quality and durability by the American Architectural Manufacturers Association (AAMA).4
  • Integrity windows are available in Wood/Ultrex – beauty of wood interior and durability of Ultrex fiberglass exterior.

Fiberglass Windows vs. Vinyl Windows – The Bottom Line…

More architects, contractors and homeowners are choosing durable, beautiful fiberglass windows, making fiberglass the fastest-growing material in the window and door market. And Ultrex has a longer track record than any other fiberglass product on the market. We spent a considerable amount of time researching the best window manufacturers and made visits to several manufacturing facilities to see how the windows are constructed. We’re confident that Integrity Windows by Marvin are a better value than vinyl windows and competitive fiberglass or composite windows.

Stop by our Idea Showroom and let us show you the comparison between vinyl and fiberglass windows. Or, we can come to your home for a No Obligation Consultation. Call us today to set up your appointment and see the difference for yourself.

1 – Life cycle assessment of windows for the North American residential market. Case study by the University of British Columbia. Scandinavian Journal of Forest Research, 2008.
2 – http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=partners.most_efficient_criteria
3 – http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=find_a_product.showProductGroup&pgw_code=WI
4 – The Ultrex patented coating system is AAMA 623-10 certified and is listed on the exclusive AAMA Verified Components List for 624-10 and 625-10.